that are proven to be falsehoods.
", Response to claim: "Joseph Smith, his father, and his brother (Hyrum) had a family business treasure hunting from 1820 – 1827", Response to claim: "Joseph was hired by folks like Josiah Stowell, who Joseph mentions in his history", Response to claim: "In 1826, Joseph was arrested and brought to court in Bainbridge, New York, for trial on fraud", Response to claim: "21st century Mormons...are so confused and bewildered when hearing stuff like Joseph Smith using a peep stone in a hat", Response to claim: "If Oliver Cowdery’s gift was really a divining rod then this tells us that the origins of the Church are much more involved in folk magic and superstition", Response to claim: "who all shared a common worldview of second sight, magic, and treasure digging", Response to claim: "Martin Harris was anything but a skeptical witness", Response to claim: "he was known by many of his peers as an unstable, gullible, and superstitious man, Response to claim: "Before Harris became a Mormon, he had already changed his religion at least five times", Response to claim: "Harris continued this earlier pattern by joining and leaving 5 more different sects", Response to claim: Martin Harris “declared repeatedly that he had as much evidence for a Shaker book he had as for the Book of Mormon”, Response to claim: Martin Harris "had hefted the plates repeatedly in a box with only a tablecloth or a handkerchief over them, but he never saw them", Response to claim: "I did not see them as I do that pencil-case, yet I saw them with the eye of faith", Response to claim: "Why couldn’t Martin just simply answer 'yes'?
I find most Mormons avoiding anything that calls their faith into question and that what holds them together as a community is their shared sense of common past, us vs them identity and social exclusion for those who deviate from the communal norms. Are my black African clients demented? All of this contradicts the claim that the Brother of Jared is the first person to see the spirit body of Christ. Come on, Jeremy. John, how is that comment responsive to the question I posed? Where in that link does it suggest that the Trinitarian God has a body and can be seen sitting on a throne? To clarify my statement. I appreciate that he wants to keep his letter accurate. I believe that we as humans are complex beings. Surely you’re not insinuating that all scientists or inventors are atheists, are you? Johnny Stephenson, who helped Jeremy Runnells, has his own blog critical of the church.
Nearly all 14-year-olds have already hit puberty. They’re just not as relevant or “in your face” as Mormonism is because we’re mostly interested in Mormonism. Anyone who can look you straight in the eye and lie to you is someone to be weary of. Another thing that jumps in me mind: the inconsistency with the stone-in-hat sources… Runnells obviously doesn’t think Joseph used the stone-in-hat method to come up with the BoM. In response, Jeremy wrote what later became publicly known as the CES Letter (originally titled Letter to a CES Director). Thank you for your honesty and integrity. Did anyone actually see the plates? My problems started when I didn’t conform well enough. My home teacher said I was being influenced by Satan and my bishop said, “You know what the church does with people like you Charlotte.” I found Mormon Stories a few years ago and that helped me so much. I might have lost my soul, but at least I still have my mind. You hit the nail on the head Jeremy. Even more important than this is that if you’re married to a believing member, if you have children together you make sure your wife and family know more than anything that you love her. ", Response to claim: "It was a teaching accepted and taught by these “prophets, seers, and revelators,” including Joseph Smith himself, for most of the Church’s entire existence until the Church quietly and unofficially made the change in the Book of Mormon in 2006", Response to claim: "Horses...did not exist in pre-Columbian America during Book of Mormon times", Response to claim: "FairMormon considers a tapir to satisfy this requirement, I’m sorry but that just won’t work.
But I do not think you make that statement out of guile ether. ", Response to claim: "a testimony is to be found in the bearing of it", Response to claim: "how can they be sure of the reliability of this same exact process in telling them that Mormonism is true?
Bob, how is it that I am detached when I get angry at the church for lying to me all my life and then to find that even the truth tellers haven’t kept things accurate? Hopefully there will be more fastballs and curveballs thrown there.
lol…you might want to reopen the case, my friend. Now that we know the Church isn’t what it claims to be, Joseph Smith marrying 33 different women including young girls and other women who were married to other men, (isn’t that enough proof the guy was demented in his thinking and practice) the question for us is “now what?”. There is a reason why the Brethren have worked to keep the truth out of their curriculum and outside of the tbm buble and the reason is that the sanitized story provides the foundation for the authority to control their members and enforce their policies and programs without question. Maybe we are hard wired for it and I have resolved myself to that fact and it makes my participation in religion easy now.
I think it is important to be accurate when sharing this information, otherwise we fall under the same problems the LDS church does, lying.
I totally agree. The Church and its prophets believed the Kinderhook Plates were legit until 1980. We come up with ideas like Joseph was a pedophile. I explain why I use the term at http://www.cesletter.com/pedophilia, Thanks! Be consistant in all aspects of your life, and you will experience a peace you havent yet known, and which doesnt come from the BOM but from valuing yourself and taking control of your life. Your hard work has helped me stop feeling guilty about losing my testimony. Losing your wife and kids is much worse. I really enjoyed listening and appreciate all the time and effort put into informing others.
Figure that out, and go in the opposite direction. ", Response to claim: "Why did Joseph take the name of “Jesus Christ” out of the very name of His restored Church? If someone has 600 relatives and most of them stayed in the same county or surrounding counties it wouldn’t be surprising that you meet that person as a complete stranger, even back then. I think it’s because the critics WERE faithful and tried to stay in the church until the church was taken from them for their honesty. As people who are criticizing the church for not being forthright and honest it is even more important for the criticizer to be even more forthright and honest without misleading, because, if someone catches you on something, they will be able to discredit the rest of your work, or at least not trust you. This letter is emblematic of how the younger generation approaches information. I lost my ‘steadfast testimony of the LDS Church in 2 hours time.
I don’t judge you for doing so. I chose to assume the best.”. For the mathematical constant, see, Descendants and related characters in the Latin alphabet, Ancestors and siblings in other alphabets.
Jeremy built on this and used it to discredit the witnesses by saying they are all related and, therefore, should not be trusted (among other things).
Third-cousins and cousins are entirely different! The CES Director emailed me first. They were not strangers as the church has portrayed it. The Mormons say it wasn’t wrote there but I say it was because I was there…” – Early Mormon Documents, 3:177-79. This was true in the 19th century as well. I listened to all of Jeremy’s podcast. But then you investigate it and it turns out that they were third-cousins.
Further, it is like hitting my head against a brick wall to hear the lies and the testimonies and spend 3 hours being bored out of my mind, and not be able to speak out.
I didn’t email him until after he emailed me. All the best, and a great story. It’s different, but not impossible. Five years ago my interest was piqued when the church historian spoke about the JoshephSmithPapers.org on BYUTV and said some members may have issues with them.
Surely you knew about human suffering and tragedy before you knew JS was a phony and a lout, right? It is a good thing. I was unaware of these omissions in the mission field as I was never taught or trained in the Missionary Training Center to teach investigators these facts. It’s dead. Funny, the earliest known version of the First Vision does not mention only Jesus. It is the most commonly used letter in many languages, including Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, French, German, Hungarian, Latin, Latvian, Norwegian, Spanish, and Swedish. That is not how human psychology works. It is very helpful to me to understand how those who have become disaffected with the Church are poorly treated.
I believe they must agree with 79 percent, since they only brought up a very few of your “complaints”, as they call them.
http://blog.23andme.com/news/announcements/how-many-relatives-do-you-have/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycUvC9s4VYA. I doff my hat to both of you. I have following this discussion with interest. Dieter Uchtdorf compares his iPhone to Seer Stone on Facebook post, Modern Egyptological Translations of Facsimile 1, Modern Egyptological Translations of Facsimile 2, Modern Egyptological Translations of Facsimile 3, Audio of Elder Marlin K. Jensen's polygamy/polyandry admission, Polyandry - Joseph was married to other living men's wives. Checkmate? Let’s tone down on the hostile language, shall we? Social phenomenon go away when they become non-functional. “However, I believe he still has a long way to go in his own philosophy and understandings.”. If you consider they are all “man made”, then it makes sense, why there is such a staggering variety of religions. I have been a fan of Jeremy’s work for some time now and I am glad we were able to hear more about his experiences and background. I feel that when you continue to post these important stories it shows the church leadership loud and clear that you are not giving up on what you believe in. Part of the job of an interviewer is to get the information and hold the interviewee’s feet to the fire if the intervieweeis skirting around the subject. A "Mormon Excommunications" page would be interesting. They were armed with a “pepperbox” and another pistol that had been smuggled in.
“What I understand you saying is that Joseph new full well he didn’t believe what he was preaching.
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