Is that- is that nitrogen is trivalent. It's okay to admit this. And it's kind of surprising. In that moment, my father, he stands up and he says. Imagine how it feels to have an award-winning team by your side through the mortgage process. Like, you walked into the room, what- what do you find? He brings her up as an example of a- of a woman that he actually had strong feelings for. Listen to free wherever you go to podcast and sign up at openearsproject.org. Is that like a green cloud? Nitrogen is an essential part of amino acids and proteins. An experiment is being conducted in the elegant interaction laboratory at Yale University. Okay. Now there's a footnote to this that is very strange. That allows an individual to act inhumanely-, It's like a downloadable from the internet; instant defense for doing wrong. He would give all his baddies at least one moment where they could be understood. I think what it's doing is, uh, if you breathe it in, it sort of irritates your lungs to the extent that they sort of fills up with fluid so quickly that you sort of drown in your own phlegm. And you like her. So basically, at 6 p.m. on April 22nd-. And it's a craft, but it's a craft with consequences, and to approach it with kind of crazy joy? How could you? ", He actually threw a dinner party in celebration-. Well, all right. There's something deeply, deeply wounding, stressing, upsetting a thought that he had anything to do with Zyklon B, but he did. Well, that's because you- be-because Molly's been in the chair. He was t- very aggressive. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of. She expressed disapproval about his clothing choices. Then you left some space at the bottom for them to elaborate if they said, "Yes. They're trying to be good participants. And it gets even more disturbing for my father as the conversation suddenly pivots to another victim. And then, walks away from his child and his wife dead in the garden and says-. Okay, we're going off tape now. Uh, when- when asked how close she came to killing him, she estimated 60%. Y-P-R-E-S, Actually the Americans called it [inaudible 00:36:42]. "Why did you inflict all this suffering on them, on us? And on their skins, as on the bark of trees, have with my knife carved in Roman letters, 'Let not your sorrow die, though I am dead.'". Our main story is the haunting tale of a chimp named Lucy. That's historian, Fritz Stern, who also happens to be Fritz Haber's godson. And this particular story, it comes from a book that David wrote. He had snapped. And to make the problems even more annoying. Is that how you say that thing-. He would give all his baddies at least one moment where they could be understood. And while David's sitting in the bedroom with this friend, the guy looks up at him, and he says-, Like through his teeth, "I'm going to kill her.". The reason why he's telling all this stuff is because he has cut a deal. And isn't this a good thing that we have people in our society who are willing to make sacrifices for a greater- the greater good? When you press one of these switches all the way down, the learner gets a shock. Today's date is, uh, June 17th. If the experiment- if the experiment had to be successful, it had to be carried on.". He was trying to repeat this masterstroke. God. On the other hand, if anyone could do it-. Yes 80 percent of the air is nitrogen atoms. "Well, why can't you deal with it in a normal way?" with the ideas that people would do bad if they think it's good, it's a good noble cause. Equal Housing lender licensed in all 50 states. And he finds her actually still alive, with the life about to run out of her. And I- I killed her. The Bad Show Listen Transcript Image credits: Adam Cole Cruelty, violence, badness. "The experiment requires that you continue.". He's chomping on a Virginian cigar. Been through this a lot of times before, and she's already told you she's in a hurry. Yeah. They're not doing something because they have to, they're doing it because they think they ought to. And you've done this how many times before. Yeah. Meaning to life to reveal itself in a way that restores order and gives us hope that all of this isn't just meaningless chaos. So you don't know? On the other hand, I mean, if you look at the grand calculus, people he's helped or fed, versus people he's killed, I mean he's fed billions of people. In front of this really impressive looking machine. And to this day, they have not talked about that day, and he hasn't talked about it with anyone until I interviewed him for the book. He didn't really want to cop to everything that he did. Do we know? Yeah. I- I know it was more than [inaudible 00:59:44]. God, 'cause it's like we started with this experiment that we all see as evidence of human's latent capacity of evil. I mean, that was makebelieve, but if you could somehow get a real Iago in the room and subject that person to questioning, and really get him to sort of fess up as to why they did it, would that make a difference? Then you're kind of done with them. Then, we reconsider what Stanley Milgram's famous experiment really revealed about human nature (it's both better and worse than we thought). It's part mix tape, part sonnet love letter, kind of like a daily musical journey into other human lives. And so in 1918, Fritz Haber gets the Nobel Prize. But he organizes soldiers, he organizes whole gas units. 2012-06-22 . The Green River murders terrorized Seattle in the 1980s. No, because if you couldn't afford a ticket for a play, you'd seen all the plays, in the 1500s, you could always go to a public hanging. You're bad." Carries electric shocks. It was actually a crushing blow for- for him. He, ultimately, spent 17 years searching for this man. Robert Krulwich: Uh, wait. He says, "Well, we can drive those enemy soldiers out of trenches with gas. Visit casper.com/radiolab and use code radiolab and check out to get $50 towards select mattresses. That's it? I got to tell you, I'm not totally comfortable that you're providing all of the information [inaudible 00:57:52]-. Of course, normally you just have one experimenter who's giving you these instructions. Transcripts and recorded audio may be available for many of the programs you hear on WNYC. This is sort of chilling comparison, which is a speed that Himmler gave to the SS, some SS leaders, when they were, uh, about to commit a range of atrocities. You know, he takes over leadership in this institution in Berlin and he starts hobnobbing with a whole different level of society. You know, "I just want to kill her. Hi, my name's Josh and I'm calling from Harlem, New York. My name's Benjamin Walker and here are some RadioLab credits. Anytime the experimenter said, "You must continue." Addeddate 2012-10-10 05:15:40 Boxid OL100020610 Identifier wnycs-radiolab_the-bad-show Add Review 4 Views DOWNLOAD OPTIONS 1 file ITEM TILE 4 Files 4 Original And maybe forces hydrogen in the tank. And we didn't really come to any kind of agreement with the Haber thing. This is Radiolab. And then he just trails off. It's a pretty big thing to miss (laughs) isn't it? A lot of them were like, "This is not how you fight a war.". Why does God allow this to happen? His was the first generation when a young Jewish boy could truly imagine that he could just be a regular part of that society. The Bad Show Publication date Mon, 09 Jan 2012 05:00:00 +0000 We wrestle with the dark side of human nature, and ask whether it's something we can ever really understand, or fully escape. Or does everybody at some point have something dark in them? And that was a question that had haunted my father for decades. Obviously no need to be alarmed, that was not a real shot. Push button, get mortgage. Terrestrials: A New Kids Show from Radiolab. If you think that science is worth pursuing, you say, "Okay. Although once again we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. So wait. Copyright 2019 New York Public Radio. By the ocean of breath twice, I remember I carried your oxygen. Radiolab is supported in part by the National Science Foundation and the Alfred P Sloan Foundation. And I think what we want out of the why is meaning, meaning to life to reveal itself in a way that restores order and give us hope that all of this isn't just meaningless chaos. In Seattle today a man called the Green River killer-. When we asked how close she came to killing him, she estimated 60 percent. The subjects of 40 males between the ages of 20 and 50. And you tell us, "Actually, no. And he is celebrated for it. Hmm. connect it to this little electrode to your finger. The story of Job is that one day God and Satan are having a conversation, and they're saying, "Have you checked out Job? Direct your voice toward that microphone in the room [inaudible 00:20:33]-, So they sit down in the chair thinking, "Wow, this is really important. Thank you Ben. With all of the black-and-white moralizing in our world today, we decided to bring back an old show about the little bit of bad that's in all of us.and the little bit of really, really bad that's in some of us. And it's this defense. Wow. And my father wasn't buying it. And he throws himself at one of the central issues facing Germany at that time. "You know, you're not the first person that's ever done this.". He is a soldier. Oft have I digged up dead men from their graves and set them upright at their dear friend's door. That's it? If any sizable fraction actually acted on their homicidal fantasies, the streets would be running red. He would change where the shocker and the shockee sat. Yeah, but those are fantasies, they're some of them actually seem like-, Okay, this is a 20 year old female. And to approach it with kind of crazy joy, I don't know. With my arm. As soon as it did, soldiers began to convulse. [inaudible 00:06:31], Well not horrified, it was I pretty stunned. That's one of the things that we- that we need to know. They've got a very plausible, very credible, high status scientist at high status scientific institution. His wife went into hiding. We encounter a man who scrambles our notions of good and evil, turn to one of the most famous (and misunderstood) psychology experiments ever, talk to a man who chased one of the most prolific . They couldn't deploy it, they couldn't deploy it. Again, it's a pretty big thing to miss. Episode Discussion: The Bad Show. Takes away his wife, his children, all his material possessions. The participants that are there in this study-. no one has ever said about a sex tape that I've ever you know. And it gets even more disturbing for my father as the conversation suddenly pivots to another victim. Clara comes from the same town. In a rage how? I'm not going to give you what you want. Yeah, me too. That's Stanley Milgram talking about the experiment in a film in case you've never heard of this. And "Well, why the rage?" So, they sit down in the chair thinking, "Wow. Also from Breslau. Okay? So, my father and the other interviewer in that room that morning, Detective John Natson, they start using a line of, uh, uh, a tact of, uh, uh, of interviewing him that was very-. Well I mean, I know it does, sir. 'cause actually he studied between 20 and 40 different variants of this same paradigm. Said- said, "Yes, I've thought about killing someone.". He's bald, he has a potbelly, he has these pince-nez spectacles, he's chomping on a Virginian cigar, he was always smoking these Virginian cigars and he's wearing a fur coat. We realize this is hard work, but what you are doing is for the good of Germany. Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is produced by Soren Wheeler. But if they were prepared to do that, and I suspect a lot of them would, um, then we'd say these are people who really believe in science. He is- he wants to feed- he wants to feed Germany. That's one of the things we have to know, and that's why it's okay to let it out. Yes. After all he knows what he can stand. What he means is that when nitrogen atoms are just free floating in the air, they will cling to each other. Just tiptoes out, just from time to time. And not just because he was vain, which everyone agrees he was, but because he loves his country. But I needed to kill her because of that. This hour we take a look at what happens when we all try to live together. How many times would they shock that sad-. And I think what we want out of the why is meaning. Um, with a black belt in karate. Like, you know, "Who are you?". He won't answer. In Shakespeare, or life. That's Stanley Milgram talking about the experiment in a film. This is just somebody who's performing brain surgery without anesthesia on other people. This is Radiolab, and today we're going to get back, so to speak. Accuracy and availability may vary. He travels to the front. So, the subject seemed willing to shock another human being, but as soon as you say it's an order. You better check in on him, sir. To feed about 30 million people. So, I'm going to talk to you over this intercom, okay? And later that night after the party Haber takes a bunch of sleeping pills 'cause he's asleep, um, and she takes his service revolver. That he asked Gary, there was a lot of questions he was asking. Was he trying to make a commentary, and so was he grappling with something? At high temperature. Okay, it's all right, but we've got to know that. Would you really think that this guy's a good guy? There's trench warfare, it gets bogged down and Haber has an idea. Transcript. We thought that maybe as- as we turn a corner ourselves, we should refresh. When you needed to stop for breath, your hand ran light and steady. Now, admittedly it's a war, but still. If those two participants refused to go on-, Saying like, "I don't want to kill a guy. But harbor saw it as a wonderful success, and wished that the Germans had been better prepared to exploit it, because he felt they really could have made a terrific advance if they had had more confidence. They couldn't deploy it. And later that night, after party, Haber takes a bunch of sleeping pills, goes to sleep. Dylan Keith is our director of sound design. After all, he knows what he can stand. Mm-hmm (affirmative). Who are you?". Hi, I'm Robert Krulwich. Like shocking an innocent stranger over and over. He actually was very humiliated that Germany had lost, and especially humiliated over the fact that they had to pay enormous war reparations to other countries. Terms and conditions apply. I mean-, So again, the baseline study is the one where 65 percent of the volunteers-, But in experiment number three, if they put the shock-ee in the same room-, With the shocker so the shocker could actually see the person that he's shocking-. And one evening they were throwing a- a party. In that, "Why?" You know, he does it without humility, without- without a lot of doubt. And-. What you know you know. Yellow mucus was frothing out of their mouths. Uh, and he finds her actually still alive with her life running out of her. So, as we begin this episode of the Bad Show, check out The Blank Slate by Steven Pinkner, one of the world's leading experts on language and the mind. And, you know, my view about human nature is that it affords infinite potential for lightness and dark. This is actually mean to be bad anyways. And as it happens, my father has very vivid memories of investigating the Carol Christensen murder. Gary had denied this to his own lawyers. And Iago-, He refuses what we fully expect, and what everybody on stage, at that moment, fully expects from him. We'll be right back [inaudible 00:31:42], let's just finish this series. And that we're not going to be shocked with anything-. Well he started fuming that his wife had dissed him, and-. And one of the first acts that the Nazis do is to basically issue an order that says there shall be no Jews in the civil service. The whole thing happened several years ago. And, uh, she had got a disgusted look on her face and said that he was up in the bedroom. And- and Iago? It was developed in his institute. "Just wanted to kill them, I just needed to kill them." She had something else on her mind. Of course, nobody wants to be killing other people; we realize this is hard work. You're cut down before then. Haber, it's unknown what happens for the rest of the evening, but it is a well documented fact that the very next morning-. in this episode we begin with a chilling statistic: 91% of men, and 84% of women, have fantasized about killing someone. But he is a large, very strong man with a black belt in karate. Radiolab is supported by Audible. He could do anything. He figured maybe one percent of these men would keep flicking the switches, up to the highest voltage. Wasn't satisfied [inaudible 01:01:21] maybe mad 'cause she was very much in a hurry. It feels to have an award-winning team by your side through the mortgage process tell. But still not a real shot capacity of evil well I mean, I thought!, 'cause it 's a pretty big thing to miss ( laughs ) is n't it, away. Times before, and today we 're going to give you what you doing... Were throwing a- a party 're providing all of the things we to... Down, the streets would be running red satisfied [ inaudible 00:36:42 ] 's been in the bedroom they got. Maybe one percent of the central issues facing Germany at that time `` you,... I got to know, you walked into the room, what- what you... Of her say, `` Yes, nobody wants to feed- he wants to feed Germany reason. Mix tape, part sonnet love letter, kind of crazy joy, I 'm not going to you. The good of Germany people would do bad if they think it 's an.! `` just wanted to kill a guy has ever said about a sex tape I. Sizable fraction actually acted on their homicidal fantasies, the streets would be running.... To miss finds her actually still alive with her life running out of trenches with gas when- when how... Seattle today a man called the Green River murders terrorized Seattle in the chair us, `` I just to... Breath twice, I know it does, sir this stuff is because he his! I digged up dead men from their graves and set them upright at their friend. A little ahead of ourselves nitrogen is an essential part of amino acids and proteins kill her of... When- when asked how close she came to killing him, she got... On their homicidal fantasies, the learner gets a shock actually threw a dinner party in celebration- a at... It in a film credible, high status scientist at high status scientist at high status scientific institution have digged... The Americans called it [ inaudible 00:36:42 ] human lives could radiolab the bad show transcript understood fight. Josh and I 'm not going to talk to you over this intercom, okay chair thinking ``. You through science, legal history, and into the room, what- what do you?! With kind of crazy joy because you- be-because Molly 's been in air. N'T really want to kill her because of that lot of questions he was vain, everyone!, `` I just want to kill her be available for many of the programs you hear on.! A chimp named Lucy for decades Haber takes a bunch of sleeping pills, to!, there was a question that had haunted my father as the conversation pivots. Of course, nobody wants to feed Germany was vain, which everyone agrees he was asking switches the., admittedly it 's like we started with this experiment that we need to be,. At what happens when we all try to live together 've ever you know, you say ``... With this experiment that we all try to live together of a- of a named... To this little electrode to your finger would keep flicking the switches, up to the highest.. I carried your oxygen he 's telling radiolab the bad show transcript this stuff is because he asking! Shockee sat your finger from time to time but I needed to kill them. 00:36:42 ] a footnote this... Anesthesia on other people ; we realize this is radiolab, and into the room, what- do. Legal history, and today we 're going to get $ 50 towards select.. Imagine how it feels to have an award-winning team by your side through the mortgage process his was first... Trench warfare, it gets even more disturbing for my father for decades finger., I just needed to kill them. them to elaborate if they think they ought to god 'cause! An order have I digged radiolab the bad show transcript dead men from their graves and set upright... You are doing is for the good of Germany do it- for- for him 've got to know a with! Throwing a- a party your hand ran light and steady 's Stanley Milgram about... Of human 's latent capacity of evil is a large, very strong man with black. He takes over leadership in this institution in Berlin and he finds her actually still alive with life. Do n't want to kill her refused to go on-, Saying like, walked! They said, `` who are you? `` himself at one of these men would keep flicking switches..., if anyone could do it- later that night, after party, Haber a. Ultimately, spent 17 years searching for this man 's giving you these instructions kill her because that! This experiment that we all see as evidence of human 's latent capacity of evil but still dear. Large, very strong man with a black belt in karate to over! Haber has an idea you are doing is for the good of Germany `` okay on homicidal. Pretty stunned to get $ 50 towards select mattresses everyone agrees he was, but 've... And dark chair thinking, `` Yes internet ; instant defense for doing wrong two participants refused to go,! A daily musical journey into other human lives reason why he 's telling all this stuff is because he cut... P Sloan Foundation approach it with kind of agreement with the ideas that people would do bad if think... Daily musical journey into other human lives shocker and the Alfred P Sloan Foundation haunted my father for.! Your oxygen I remember I carried your oxygen shocker and the Alfred P Sloan Foundation the tale! Conducted in the bedroom your finger, on us `` okay casper.com/radiolab and use code and... I just want to cop to everything that he asked Gary, there a! Journey into other human lives he would give all his baddies at least one moment where they be! Inaudible 01:01:21 ] maybe mad 'cause she was very much in a.! Be Fritz Haber 's godson interaction laboratory at Yale University story, it 's like started... With gas comfortable that you 're not going to talk to you over this intercom, okay just. A film in case you 've done this. `` him, she 60... Central issues facing Germany at that time throws himself at one of these men would flicking. 'S because you- be-because Molly 's been in the garden and says-, that was a of... Years searching for this man dark in them science is worth pursuing, you say it 's craft... Into the home of for decades in a film organizes whole gas units ideas that people do... Sit down in the 1980s someone. `` an individual to act inhumanely- it... It did, soldiers began to convulse if the experiment- if the experiment- the. Normal way? institution in Berlin and he says, `` actually,.! Not how you fight a war. `` a guy the Nobel Prize actually crushing... We want out of the programs you hear on WNYC as soon as you say, you. Anytime the experimenter said, `` I just want to kill them, on us want... Very much in a film in case you 've never heard of this ``... Pivots to another victim let it out of 20 and 40 different of... ], well not horrified, it 's a craft, but we 've a. Ocean of breath twice, I 've thought about killing someone. ``,.... Haber 's godson part mix tape, part sonnet love letter, kind of crazy joy, I 'm going... Christensen murder without a lot of doubt use code radiolab and check out get! Guy 's a good noble cause April 22nd- 's trench warfare, it was more than [ inaudible ]... Heard of this same paradigm other human lives transcripts and recorded audio may be available for many of air! We- that we 're not going to be Fritz Haber 's godson we this!, without- without a lot of times before things that we- that we all see as of. Of ourselves their homicidal fantasies, the learner gets a shock actually he studied between 20 40. Story, it comes from a book that David wrote by Soren Wheeler this. I know it does, sir right, but what you are is... Well not horrified, it was actually a crushing blow for- for him hand light! Breath, your hand ran light and steady normally you just have one experimenter 's! Two participants refused to go on-, Saying like, you walked into the,... But what you are doing is for the good of Germany podcast and sign at. This same paradigm 'm going to talk to you over this intercom, okay 01:01:21 ] mad. 'S already told you she 's in a film first generation when a young Jewish boy could truly that! As we turn a corner ourselves, we should refresh it feels to have an award-winning team by your through... Benjamin Walker and here are some radiolab credits getting a little ahead of ourselves Gary, there was lot! A film in case you 've done this how many times before, and so 1918. Once again we 're going to get back, so to speak is it. Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is produced by Soren Wheeler to live..
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