Your man-made system may not have won, but the winner here may be the truth, you know. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. Read Acts 4 and 5. No wonder they get a God complex. In a calm. Youre not alone Lyds. Good night!!! I happened to meet the other womans husband, and I suppose the megapastor considered him a type C or D leader and didnt often invite him along. Young people are buying cuddle items. Menu. Its not about perfection but it is about striving to be. I wonder if her crisis of faith was after finding out about something shady Bill was doing? Its a very reasonable step for Mr Hybels publishers to at least suspend his books until a more independent investigation has been completed. There are a tiny few, a tiny few. The solution? If you think about it, that was a planned get out of jail card planted around a few places quite expertly. I dont care if its what you like to do. there was nothing inappropriate about Bill trying to guide your whole self as an up and coming leader. (I do think that helped me collect the red flags sooner, though). You think you know yet you dont. It is when people naively do not realize that everyone has an agenda, not to be cynical, that they fail to ask important questions and perform essential (to them!) And whistleblowers are rarely the pristine good guys with no baggage. @ jackie: Status? Bill Hybels and Willow Creek, Ravi Zacharias, Steve Timmis and Acts 29, Hillsong New York City pastor Carl Lentz, James MacDonald and Harvest Bible Chapel are just a few of the names I could list. 2) Its the cost of doing business as a very large or successful church @ Lydia: Its the same thing my university wrings their hands over. Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. Does Willow Creek teach leaders how to marginailze church members that do not have the vision that the pastor does? More of my thoughts here: http://www.divorceminister.com/nancy-ortberg-shares-her-side-rebill-hybels-allegations/. 3:6, but you gloss over that because really, at the end of the day, in spite of all your preening about your great knowledge of the Koine Greek (proud, haughty, so like your master, eh? Why is it people cannot just go to work,college, etc, without the social safety net of artificial group belonging? Ever. I would add that based upon reactions of his followers here, it becomes more obvious why. When youre the victim of something creepy, such as abuse, suggestive sexual behavior or private narcissistic rage or whatever ugly thing from a pastor who holds himself up as a paragon of virtue, people often feel embarrassed at having been involved in it, even if they had nothing to do with the wrongful actions. I am all for systemic analysis and the big-picture view. Publishing is a major part of a celebritys platform. Many years back Hybels started up the World Leadership Conferences which in reality means World Domination Conferences. There are some 20 gifts mentioned in Scripture (Romans 12, Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 1213). Such a horror of more revictimization. That is a mistake. Enough is enough. Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? Lynne Hybelsis the wife of Bill Hybels-renowned founder and senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in Illinois, This year in 2018, Billhas been publicly accused of sexual harassment and h e has resigned from the megachurch he and Lynnefounded, In the last few months as this media storm has rained down confusion and grief on those at the We must judge actions and , if they are wrong, we must pass judgement on them, even if it is one of our beloved leaders. Jesus was a grand act to follow, and the disciples did it right. There were some very attractive female students. The strength and impact of Nancy Beachs and Vonda Dyers words remain, thankfully. But she was trying to equate her comraderly relationship with Ortberg the same as women who have come forward concerning hybels Behavior. he shoveled my walkway and came to the neighborhood potlucks? There are evil people who look like good people. Not that hugs are linked to drugs; I am just meandering. Or been involved with the thought reform in a social justice Warrior Church. I am going to assume this women does not know how business is conducted these days. Is that structure really the best way to know Christ? Dont allow it in your personal life. A hint here, a casual comment there, Twenty Chess Moves in Advance. I saw it on the Willow Creek Church Facebook page, and posted it here because I know someone here will get to the bottom of it. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. Wondering if the old frog in the pot was happening at the church, including John Ortberg. Very valuable comment. They sounded clearly clueless about the price and pain that Hybels' behavior inflicted on his victims. That is because most men and women are not predators. * It is about power and control and until people in churches get this, they will be waaaaay behind the culture. But I believe the women who have been abused by Bill Hybels are telling the truth. Mahaney books. You were there (especially for children) If it doesnt recur, people often try to dismiss it as an aberration. I have been reading sex abuse stories for 9 years. Example, why did you agree in front of everyone to stay after everyone they all left,you idiot. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. Its up to the Willow Creek to distinguish themselves and so far, based on the comments here, they have not. The fact that people post here and not just give up on the church and Christainty gives me great comfort the NT clearly warns of false profits amoung the brethern and clearly teaches we should have qualified leaders. 4 YEARS went by that John Ortberg learned about this issue Yes, Nancy may have not been sure when she had her experience.. with Bill in the hotel room. Bill Hybels verbally and emotionally intimidated both female and male employees. All the retreats, big brother making sure you attend mid week activities (I know of some megas that were playing around with a card swipe for staff to make sure they were attending services and staying), the need to be cool, your personal assistants doing your clothes shopping, etc, etc. And my guess is the elders dont know either. So, Am I over thinking it?, one wonders. Hybels used Yahweh (God) for his own desires and celebrity. Senior 501(c)3 Willow Creek management apparently did not throughly examine the extent of the personal witness/testimony/allegations at the time of presentation. Im not out to defend Rob Bell, but Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy, at least based on historical Christianity. Listen to yourself, Brad! People are observing us, day in and day out. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. Very sad. Wow. Please dont judge Nancys actions she did what most women would do. Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? Most common reaction in the world. 4 unwanted extended hugs (thats including Nancy Ortbergs latest revelation). Dee, my Sister Nancy Beach sent me this today. I agree. The new lead pastor discounts the claims of the betrayed and encourages the women of the church to believe differently. I think you have to either ask, as okrapod mentioned, or kind of read the room. The term sometimes used is secure email. It was not well written It was a farce and all those behind it need to get a reality check. A year later they started Willow Creek Community Church. Sad! Look at the Stowell family leaving Harvest Bible Chapel as an example of a family who quietly left with dark secrets about a megachurch. Personally I was more offended by Wailing Wall-Satanic ritual connection. And actually, it was the Holy Spirit that empowered Peter to be so bold that made it happen. What I count is as follows: Adults need to Stop being snookered by totalitarian niceness. No longer have their careers as a result of their actions Ive no doubt that there was irregularities going on at WCC. Not my thing. Its amazing how many believers will interpret the metaphor of fruit differently, for example. I think they all have the same m.o. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. You are so right. And Long Prayers will be said for justification. Your experience fits my own. Activism. Either way, doesnt matter. Thank you for that comment, Lydia. They were not allowed to have free and open churches-the ones that were open were beholden to the government. Tried to handle it internally. Even the word Unity really means conformity. The woman alleging an affair with Bill said that she was suicidal, both to Leanne and to Bill. I know this because I have experienced it myself. Being gracious, forbearing people who do not want to hold our pastor to the standard of perfection, we persuade ourselves that we misread the situation, misunderstood the words, are making too big a deal of silly things, and so on. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote: I dont know what you have been told but, according to the Bible, Jesus is the one who brings people to Himself. Amnon: I WANNA TAMAR! For many years, they were THE place when on job hunt. This reminds me of Bob Packwood, a former senator from my state. Having Church in your club title does not necessarily mean it is the Bride of Christ. People so manipulated, though wounded, never quite understand what is causing the pain. Wailing Wall-Satanic Ritual? No one knows. Be nice and your comments will be let through. The elder board and staff who enabled him are equally bad. What Hubris that is. It was part of his long time abuse of her. AFAIK they havent yet made any corrections or denials. Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. Or, for instance, a pastor may be forever fishing to see what his parishioners know as to the latest church scandal, etc., without the trusting individuals ever even know this is taking place. All that to say, once these people leave WCC they realize the atmosphere there was not right, and yes this would include John Ortberg as well. I fund it demeaning to victims and I dont do demeaning here. @ truthseeker00: Just listening to Hybels extol the leadership virtues of Heather Lawson (another blonde) was enough to make me wonder, Is anyone else hearing and seeing this? His own wife (Lynne) is very different from the women Hybels mentored. And I never understood why Hybels did not step down when his wife (Lynne) had a HUGE crisis of faith. Too many missed opportunities to do the right thing. Thanks for the link and summary, Barbara this sounds like noteworthy research on specific dynamics! We would often rent out suites in hotels when there were medical conferences/ conventions going on. However, for people like those profiled on this site who have fallen short in protecting those under their charge (say, by covering ups their own misdeeds and/or crimes or those of others) to reemerge in a place where they again wish to wield spiritual authority (by starting another ministry (sic) in which they assume spiritual leadership or selling books advising sheep on spiritual matters seeking funding from said sheep in each case) is massively troubling. I dont understand the purpose!!!!! Are you aware, Mr. Brucker, that you are essentially playing with a full house or a straight flush in the rationalization department? John Ortberg served (1994-2003) as teaching pastor at Chicagos Willow Creek Community Church. As has been pointed out above, many ways to digest the Bible; however a almost universal understanding is to be Christlike. May God raise up more people like Josiah who tore down the high places and every high thing that exalted itself against the knowledge of God until Jesus becomes the only thing worshipped in the church. That group togetherness thing costs big time. Jesus wins. I believed, everyone believed, that he was one of the good guys, committed to fighting for womens rights, committed to our marriage, and to the women he worked with. Hes probably kicking himself for the missed opportunity! is lynne hybels still married to bill. The headers which wont be encrypted give info on sender and recipients and dates. This year in 2018, Bill has been publicly accused of sexual harassment and h e has resigned from the megachurch he and Lynne founded. They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth. Brad, given my age, their is a high probability that I was taking college bible class before you were born. plus Ive read very wise authors like: Don Hennessy an relationship counselor in Ireland who has worked for decades in the field of domestic abuse. I suspect one does not not from creepy hugs, but research shows it is true in more ambivalent hugs, or hugs where someone is already inclined to have even a small degree of trust (e.g. Just Disgraceful. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. In lego marvel rescue minifigure Your comment covers a lot of ground I am all too familiar with. What needs to be addressed is that this is not a matter of somehow eliminating the existence of random perverts, as if such a thing were possible. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. Whatever the intention, both teach. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. It never ceases to amaze me that the Pew sitters continue on without ever demanding to see a detailed budget. In Megas there are layers upon layers of protective bubble wrap for guys like Hybels. Is that one of the reasons Student Centers/University Unions include Mall Food Courts and all the amenities of a high-end cruise ship? Because your mind tells you this particular man YOU KNOW would never so you must be misjudging. My heart goes out to you, all of you, by coming forward you have contributed to breaking this cycle of abuse. Religious, but spiritually destitute. That has got to be trans-species perversion right there. I dont want to think poorly of John Ortberg too. Walking away from an institution is not the same as walking away from faith in Christ. just questioning a seeker sensitive approach can bring down a fair amount of push -back , heat, and attacks on your faith So, now the geru of it has resigned, over minor or mad eup attacks?? The founding couple died, and the board got rid of those naughty kids and grandkids. In your view, discussing Hybels behavior is worse than his behavior. He has denied. But I now see how he used his relationship with me as a shield, both during and after our marriage, so no one would question his relationships with other women or scrutinize his writing as anything other than feminist. Just wondering??? This morning, Nancy Ortberg posted Flawed Process, Wounded Women on her website. No one. This is ridiculous! I think Hybels and Billy Graham lost their beliefs somewhere along the way. Is it the lack of family having your back? After you were told by Bill that you dressed like a college professor and needed to dress appropriately for your position, I was the one asked to get you new clothing. I appreciate my bosses wisdom. Why is Willow Creek exempt? Or they adapted. The Willow Creek board apparently presented a report saying there was no evidence to support the Bill Hybills allegations? I agree!! He could claim she was taking advantage of him (poor man) because she knew that after taking Ambien he might not be possessed of his full faculties for the rest of the night. We saw the dirty laundry, the rebellious child, etc. Steve Carter (Hybels hand picked teaching pastor) was on staff with Rob Bell at Mars Hill EMERGENT Church. Enough has been said about BH for him to be disqualified in my book, and given how Williow Creek model was push on much of christainity, we are all well within the commands of the NT to exhibit judgement and wisdom if want, we can start playing the verse naming game if you wish. The first half of the book, written by Lynne Hybels, explores the early years of Willow Creek and the personal accounts behind one of this century's most . Nothing brings the True Believer attack dogs out of the woodwork like even the hint of Blasphemy against their REAL god. Thanks, Futurist Guy. You tell your kids That was wrong. Among the prominent U.S. and Palestinian church voices who spoke was Lynne Hybels, co-founder with her pastor husband Bill of the Chicago area Willow Creek Church, which itself spawned a . The principles are sound, thoughwell enough to be applied to anyone's marriage, especially those looking to place God in the middle. but I know you dont have that set up. The one about J. Ortberg? Unless, of course, its useful as an excuse Children The couple has two children. Because it was not entirely clear what happened. @WillowCreekCC. I, like so many others a tragic victim of corrupted Christianity. What I count is as follows: Thats the thing; note the commonality of the golden parachute disembarking in these cases. We are all sinners and we all fail. I know. Ambien or the Devil it is always Something/one Elses Fault. He did so for a reason and it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. This one is so true. These have what I think are some significant parallels from which to consider some larger patterns. its all changed. Peter Led about 3000 to Christ on the day of Pentacost. Gossip! So sad. He is married to Lynne Hybels since 1974. Just wondering??? Ive known Sociopaths who could look you right in the eye and Lie with total open-eyed, butter-wouldnt-melt-in-their-mouth Sincerity. I assume you mean well. @ Barbara Roberts: Jesus takes care of the harvest. Looks like THAT Joseph Smith (the founding couple) were lucky enough to have a Brigham Young (the board) to succeed them. Why? @ #UnbiblicalPaths: Thank you for that comment, Lydia. Bob Buckner. In 2019, a six-month-long independent review found all allegations against Bill credible. They called people out who were lying, as well as inappropriate practices in the churches.]. And I promise: NO ONE was ever saved, in all history, because of eloquence. (Hoping they picked the right winning faction). There is more to this story. @ AbuseCrusher: Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. Christ truely cared about the underdog, and did not like religious leaders that abused their positions. But here we are! Updated | Rev. The exact same mind control tools create social justice Warrior Churches as are used to create mega seeker churches or the monolithic SBC franchise. Of a high-end cruise ship mean it is always Something/one Elses Fault dismiss it an! And caring without all that the headers which wont be encrypted give on... So far, based on the comments here, they will be let through its a very step. 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Care if its what you like to do the right thing right winning faction ) Student Centers/University Unions Mall. Best way to know Christ surprised it was the Holy Spirit that empowered Peter to so...
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