I fully believe that, if hes agreeable to treatment, that down the road that he should be willing to make both private amends to the people he harmed and public amends at churches where he caused harm. Sadly, we smelled the booze again and he admitted that he was choosing to drink. We now approach these matters much more like a spiritual team and have developed richer relationships not dependent on being part of the organization. They and their families are all the better for it. I think Ive read that some people have linked drug and alcohol additions to life situations/trauma/etc and said once that moment in their life passed they were able to drop the drugs and/or alcohol with little problem. I hope everyone has a very nice day. I am glad you got help and that your life is better. After he left St. Peter Presbyterian in 2010 to move to Orlando and join Ligonier Ministries he also part-time preached at a couple of tiny churches started by others, the first of which he was shown the door for stealing church moneys, and the second of which was started by a personal friend of his. You are also incorrect that I am putting Barbara down because I disagree with her. RC2 is doing this having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Paul said in this same verse to Avoid such people.. Theres still no excuse to be an abuser of others. The other individual was an executive at a corporation (think Sr. Vice President). doesnt say it nearly strongly enough. We are called in the Bible to many other things, including loving one another, bearing each others burdens, than simply kicking people out who arent like us. This is not all that safe sometimes. Here is psychologist/author/cult expert/Thought Reform expert Steve Hassan explaining Perhaps church is part of the problem not part of any solution. My extended family has a lot of alcoholics. During all my time of distress, nobody in the church was there for me, whether inside or outside a brick building with a cross and steeple. I agree with this. The constant putdowns to me and others, calling people with addictions alkies, telling me that I cant reply to comments, etc. In fact, putting him out of the church may prompt him to truly hit bottom so he realises that he MUST get help and he takes serious steps, ongoing efforts, to get the help he needs. If you have training, why didnt you correct H.A. That is odd. 5, that you mention: With all humility and compassion I am sorry for your tragedy. As you are well aware, acquainted with the sacred writings are able to make the body of Christ followers wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. If a person backslides then they teach this person never was a true believer really never given irresistible grace.. So that is why I and possibly some others had a visceral reaction of Remove this cancer from the Body once and for all. Does his life bear the mark of a Christian? Because I actually get it. Thanks for giving it a try. I really doubt most alcoholics CAN go to inpatient treatment for 30 let alone 90 days. To simply kick them out, in my opinion, is wrong. R.C. (And we are all frustrated with the double standards we have seen!!). (Stay Sweet), As one woman I know who got help for being married to an alcoholic said to me, Can you imagine for one second the shame and embarrassment of having everyone know that your mom is a fall down drunk? With Barbara because he does need to be put out of the church as a minister (and that needs to be permanent) and as a member (although that could potentially be temporary). She needed that love. Sorry I cant help you, friend. She had trouble finding work, but volunteered at church and around town about 60 hours a week. Praise God, that is truly His heart and should be ours. Too. Instead theyve provided a life of ease and luxury with hundreds of thousands of dollars every year for very little effort. We had a great time together. Perhaps you are being blinded by the guys alcohol addiction. There are phone books with that same information. (dont have the V in front of me). No way to cure the disease, except to not drink. when H.A. These men have made fortunes off the backs of faithful, trusting people. Not that it has anything to do with alcoholism, but many adult children of my acquaintance will never step foot in a church again because of the toxic teachings of RC Sproul Sr., RC Sproul Jr, and like-minded men who espouse the same teachings. In time, this changes for the better. Velour wrote: Sproul was founder of Ligonier Ministries, first minister of preaching and teaching at Saint Andrew's Chapel in Sanford, Fla., and first president of R oh my goodness .. Please check back later for why I think this article is pertinent. And I agree with #3 the kicker is, does HE want treatment? In the end, people hurt. Why not? 1. Id be pretty surprised if this plea deal/arrest didnt come with some sort of treatment required/AA. If one has not read the Adult children of alcoholic books, dont consider yourself educated on this matter. Finding resolve amidst the dissonance of "churchianity". Purge the evil person from among you.. You yourself are stuck in a rut and go over the same things over and over again. The meshing of the SBC with Calvinists, as Ive witnessed for several years now, both locally and online, has been a great mystery to me. (Barbara also doesnt allow the word codependency to be used on her blog and people are banned. I have a hole in my skull about the size of a quarter just Bove and in front of my ear. Then, the preacher gets up and delivers a sermon with a title such as, How to Have a Successful Marriage.. Hes like Driscoll and so many others. Soas far as you know they have adequate job performance, soso did Winston Churchill. that the only response that Barbara had was to kick Sproul out of the church. Sin leveling at its very finest. Can you find out for us if this was a New Calvinist takeover thing? Sr. CAN keep Jr. from standing in the pulpit. And his family needs it as well for living with a problem drinker. You and I differ on this, and I see no agreement between us on the issue of what is the rightful place of the church in such matters. May we all be "wounded healers" who do no harm. People dont have to reinvent the wheel to find help. Its deeply odd for a grown man to mock anyone who doesnt drink. @ Velour: Hes a drunkard, by definition. 1. Yes, the church should raise the bottom on the alcoholic by terminating his job and not enabling him. 1. a serial killer, The proper course of action is to not enable someone and to get them into a treatment program. No, apparently all were agreement from the very beginning. Not that it has anything to do with alcoholism, but many adult children of my acquaintance will never step foot in a church again because of the toxic teachings of RC Sproul Sr., RC Sproul Jr, and like-minded men who espouse the same teachings. Its fine for you to decide that YOU want to knock it off. Sproul 2s drinking (and whatever other problems that he has) and an intervention by family and friends with a trained professional. I know the story, but need someone willing to come forward, even anonymously. The scene was an absolute tidal wave of love. They also have to be willing to cut themselves off from all their friends (the only friends alkies keep are drinkers and other alkies) and make new sober friends. Drunkenness was one of a number of formal charges that were brought against RC Sproul Jr in late 2005 to his denomination, the Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly. Sr. can keep Jr. from standing in the pulpit. That was the purpose of our Parents Concerned ministry. It was a general comment about a general topic which has been discussed before and no doubt will be again. I have an occasional drink, but honestly can barely muster up the desire for that, given what Ive seen. In 2005, I was 13 years old and my family had just joined R.C. SEE? Why do you feel the need to assume things about people without asking? He was into the Federal Vision (Doug Wilson) heresy which caused a lot of anguish for a lot of people for years. I had already read your first comment about Barbara and codependency. Steven King, recovering alcoholic, (King relates this in the autobiographical first half of his nonfiction book On Writing. Please stop advocating for other family members of substance abusers and how the church treats them? I cannot add to or take away from Gods Word. Kathleen Melanie (Littlefield) Sproul died April 9, 2021, at her home at the age of 69. The obituary was featured in Orlando Sentinel on December 15, 2017. Or for the other secret alcoholics in the pews who are struggling and ashamed and who need help? Although my situation is different. I posted my earlier reply to you too soon and I didnt answer your point. Then they really start talking. No. Sproul, Jr.s case. If somebody asks themselves where the line is then the line may be something they have already crossed in their own mind, or else why would they even ask. But if we do this, we usually reply to the comment on-blog telling the commenter that we edited their comment and why we edited it. The surgeons would tell you pregnancy is a disease . Since he pled guilty to a felony, there is no question that Sproul is an alcoholic and needs serious counseling. Alcoholics cannot be helped and wont be helped if they dont want it. Through the Bible, the word of God, proper and needful organization and administration are provide the body of Christ believers. Im not uncomfortable with Barbs rules. These need help. I am not trying to take you to task, because you are obviously passionately defending a carefully considered stance, but your mode of communication is obscuring your message. Will he receive it? @ Claire: He got a $350 fine and 250 hours of community service. @ Velour: [or cut out entirely] Double that if other people start making comments to you about it. Welcome to TWW. I didnt know about his second marriage. Am still not seeing how sitting about with other people will cure certain issues such as alcoholism. in observing their lives, i see how common sense has served them very well. She was born April 17, 1947 at Baltimore, MD a daughter of the late Phillip Geppi and Rita Geppi who survives at Belington. I hope that you will encounter those like me whose lives have been forever impacted by this particular sin. I wonder whether RC Sproul Senior has accepted that fact yet? Medications did not help me, either. Im not so keen to hold the church up as a solution to anyone for any reason. They all knew that by inviting Jr into their pulpits in their churches and at their conferences it would buy them favor with the old man. You dont. It means please stop adding to what Barbara said. Interesting you can say this. Sprouls problems and how each should be handled. By the very nature of the role he occupies, he likewise claims authority over what God is or is not saying to the members of the organisation. For it to happen they almost always have to have hit rock bottom. I know someone who has been banned from Barbaras blog for using the term codependency, which Barbara doesnt permit. The objective and end goal must always be repentance unto restoration. On May 30, 2017 RC Sproul Jr appeared before Judge Frances C. Gull in Allen County Indiana Drug Court to determine his eligibility for the Drug Court Treatment Program. Sproul, Sr.). 2. As for whether or not other believers part company with him that situation is delineated by Christ Jesus Himself in Matthew 18. Same in books on domestic violence those who are experts on DV will tell readers dont waste time bringing your abusive husband into marriage counseling, because marriage counseling is ineffective at treating abuse. If that's the case, then Albert Mohler is one of the most radical Social Justice Warriors in evangelicalism, doing a 180-degree turn from his 2014 debate with Jim Wallis on the subject. 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