The American Air Arms EVOL is one of those exceptional things made here in America.and yes.I want one! This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. It held a great advantage as it was a repeating rifle. But around 1780 an enterprising Tyrolean gunsmith named Bartolomeo Girandoni developed a rugged new model air rifle that was soon adopted by the Austrian military. Lots of modern .22 caliber air rifles can shoot through a 1-inch pine board at 100 yards, but I believe you misread the article. Lewis could not always leave the magic to chance, however. He may have had a more important use in mind from the outset, for he often exhibited it as part of the official council held with each native nation. it operates at? Publisher of Petersen's HUNTING magazine, Kevin Steele is at the Steiner Optics booth with Alberto Corbetta to discuss the Predator 4 and Predator 8. Federal recently celebrated 100 years in business. This was perhaps the most genuinely joyous occasion during the whole expedition, with every man in the Corps relieved and elated at having safely reached another objective; with Sacagawea and her beloved brother, Cameahwait, reunited; with, as Lewis put it, a flattering prospect of being able to bargain for horses, and soon proceed on. With its removable metal air tank filled the air rifle could fire 22 lead balls in rapid succession. Perhaps the most significant repair they discovered was a replaced mainspring. Wed like to think that the pounding recoil and sharp report of a centerfire rifle doesnt impact us, but thats simply not true. [5]Smith and Swick, 50. jQuery('#footnote_plugin_tooltip_1466_1_5').tooltip({ tip: '#footnote_plugin_tooltip_text_1466_1_5', tipClass: 'footnote_tooltip', effect: 'fade', predelay: 0, fadeInSpeed: 200, delay: 400, fadeOutSpeed: 200, position: 'top center', relative: true, offset: [-7, 0], }); Rodneys account that Lewis was still imperfectly acquainted with the operation of his exotic weapon, which might have been a contributing factor toward the air gun accident on Brunots Island. In the fall of 1809, he was making his way to Washington, D.C., to press his case for reimbursement for expenditures and to defend himself against his territorial secretary, Frederick . An authentic Girardoni used a 20-ball magazine. A powder-and-ball weapon can only be fired after the hammer, or cock, is pulled all the way back to full-cock position; it cant possibly go off half-cocked. Repeating air guns of Girardonis design could have had either a one-position (full-cock only) or a two-position (half-cock and full-cock) tumbler. However, as air rifle and Lewis and Clark expert Robert Beeman points out, we must avoid the very misleading thought that the Girandoni rifle opened or won the West. [9]Personal communication from Michael Carrick, 7 August 2003. jQuery('#footnote_plugin_tooltip_1466_1_9').tooltip({ tip: '#footnote_plugin_tooltip_text_1466_1_9', tipClass: 'footnote_tooltip', effect: 'fade', predelay: 0, fadeInSpeed: 200, delay: 400, fadeOutSpeed: 200, position: 'top center', relative: true, offset: [-7, 0], }); In 1803, at 23 years of age, he was still an apprentice to his father, a horologist (clock-maker), in Horsham Township, fifteen miles north of Philadelphia. Which is correct? An Austrian government report from January 20, 1801, states that 399 air guns had been lost in battle, meaning that there was an increased possibility of higher circulation of air guns circulating in Europe and America. It is necessary that the simple soldier, whose intelligence is generally quite limited, is given this training immediately upon receiving the gunand that the training is delivered in individual parts and not too much at once.. It was not an easy task. Furthermore, in 2002, gun historian Michael Carrick determined that Isaiah Lukens was not known to have been in business in Philadelphia before 1814. The rifles Lewis took with him were built under Army contract in 1792 and 1794. The explorers greeted the assembled tribesmen with formal gravity and then proceeded to hand out gifts such as bolts of colored cloth, beads, and commemorative medallions. See, Sometime after the expedition returned to. Subscriber Services. In fact, his description indicates it might well have been the type originally designed by the Tyrolean clock-maker Bartolomeo Girardoni (b. Much like the popular modern-day Daisy Red Ryder BB gun, the rifle balls were fed into the breech with the aid of gravity, the muzzle of the weapon being held upright as the bullets rolled down toward the breech. 6731 Whittier Avenue, Suite C-100 McLean, VA 22101, Stay up to date with all of our latest news, [6]An authentic Girardoni used a 20-ball magazine. Air rifles offer many advantages over traditional firearms, and one of those is that they do not require owners to fill out a 4473 form at the local gun shop for purchase. This pamphlet included several air guns and air canes and one large air gun made for and used by Messrs Lewis & Clark in their exploding expeditions. Hand-operated air pumps (it took some 1,500 strokes to fill each air canister) were issued one per two riflemen with additional large scale, wheeled air-pumping carts placed behind the lines. With thanks for information and advice provided by Geoffrey Baker, William K. Brunot, and Michael Carrick. This design was used in many popular sporting air guns made in Europe during the 18th century. Over the course of seventeen months a group of over forty individuals traveled seven thousand miles through hostile native tribes from the middle of America . At least one, however, crossed the Atlantic and played a major role in a pivotal period of American history. [1] [2] Design and capabilities [ edit] The rifle was 4 ft (1.2 m) long and weighed 10 lb (4.5 kg), about the same basic size and weight as infantry muskets of the time. It is now on loan to and on special display at the Pentagon. However, the stray bullet had come from one of his own men rather than a surprise ambush, and the air rifle continued to be used for ceremonial purposes only. This page was funded in part by a grant from the National Park Service's Challenge Cost Share Program. The first major disadvantage was that to get the air rifle fully charged with pressurized air, 1500 strokes of a hand pump (similar to a modern-day bicycle pump) were required. The folks that live around me arent anti-gun by any stretch, but when your napping newborn is awaken to the sound of shotgun blasts from next door theres friction. . was so perfectly incomprehensible that they immediately denominated it the great medicine. Find one-of-a-kind firearms and firearm accessories at Lewis Clark Trader. The Lewis and Clark air rifle, which had the potential to be deadly, was actually a peaceful instrument essential in the opening of the American West. This made loading the gun very easy, as the user simply had to elevate the muzzle and press a spring-loaded slider, which would, in turn, pick up a ball and snap it into place. Soon after the expedition ended, however, the Lewis and Clark air rifle disappeared. All R9 rifles are made in Germany and come with a hooded blade front sight and adjustable rear sight, but they also feature an 11mm dovetail for mounting optics. Lewis traveled the west with an ace up his sleeve in the form of the repeating airgun. The explorers donned their most colorful military uniformsfrock coats, sparkling swords, formal headgear, polished muskets and bayonetsand with flags flying and fifes whistling, they marched boldly into each meeting. and the white men writing down everything the speakers said, which must itself have been a powerful gesture, inspiring wonder mixed with fear. Without a doubt it is a stunning instrument. There were about 37 people at camp at one time, so Lewis fired his air gun, which astonished them in such a manner that they were orderly and kept at a proper distance during this time.. Oil on canvas. Indeed, item 95 in the catalog of Lukenss estate might just as well been of the Girardoni type, which certainly would have qualified as a great curiosity, which was to say, a rarity. Featured in fairly large calibers, these pneumatic weapons were employed by the very wealthy in hunting large game such as deer and wild boar. The scope has all of these attributes, and many more. Most modern high strength plastics / rubber were used with no success. Most hunters associate air rifles with tasks like dispatching small vermin, but todays air rifles are capable of cleaning taking much larger quarry. Finally, the Girandoni air rifle was very expensive. Each one had to be crafted by master gunsmiths, which took both time and money. Sound good? Lewis and Clark would often wear their most colorful military uniforms with their flags flying and fifes whistling. However, air guns had been a prominent hunting weapon in Europe since the 16th century,. Furthermore, the weapon used air rather than gunpowder to shoot the bullets loaded in its barrel. 21.78. This site is provided as a public service by theLewis and Clark Trail Heritage Foundationwith cooperation and funding from the following organizations: Unless otherwise noted, journal excerpts are from The Journals of the Lewis and Clark Expedition, edited by Gary E. Moulton, 13 vols. Break-action air rifles are another popular option. Selected journal excerpts, 14 May 1804-23 September 1806. Perhaps 1804? He said the biggest problem he had was finding a material to make the air seal between tank & gun. Thanks. Even larger pellets like .357s cost about fifty cents per round. As a youngster, Beeman had received a Daisy BB gun as a gift, and the weapon stirred a lifelong passion for air rifles. At some point in the proceedings, Lewis would confidently display his Girandoni and demonstrate its remarkable power. It was used to light the quickmatch, or fuse, of a cannon or rocket. With its removable metal air tank filled the air rifle could fire 22 lead balls in rapid succession. Starting with an empty reservoir, Continue reading jQuery('#footnote_plugin_tooltip_1466_1_12').tooltip({ tip: '#footnote_plugin_tooltip_text_1466_1_12', tipClass: 'footnote_tooltip', effect: 'fade', predelay: 0, fadeInSpeed: 200, delay: 400, fadeOutSpeed: 200, position: 'top center', relative: true, offset: [-7, 0], }); with no ramming of the ball into the barrel, no primer in the pan, no flash, no bang,[13]The paraphrased version of Joseph Whitehouses journal entry for 7 August 1805 has the private saying that Lewis fired off his air gun several times in order that the Man who we suppose Continue reading jQuery('#footnote_plugin_tooltip_1466_1_13').tooltip({ tip: '#footnote_plugin_tooltip_text_1466_1_13', tipClass: 'footnote_tooltip', effect: 'fade', predelay: 0, fadeInSpeed: 200, delay: 400, fadeOutSpeed: 200, position: 'top center', relative: true, offset: [-7, 0], }); no smoke; several bullets placed in a target without pause for reloading. The Lewis and Clark Expedition: Day by Day by Gary E. Moulton (University of Nebraska Press, 2018). The. Timing was everything. Her thesis examined menstrual education in Victorian England. The Girandoni rifle was a breech-loader, with a 20 round tubular magazine alongside the barrel. Historians now believe that Lewis took a Girandoni Air Rifle from Europe on his expedition. That big Pacific storm downed a huge number of trees, and blocked our way down to the post office which is . With the exception of some suppressed or subsonic loads all modern centerfire rifles and shotguns produce sound levels at or above 140 decibels, which can cause permanent damage to your hearing. They made chiefs, distributed a liberality of gifts to all, and fed the hungry Shoshones their very first taste of corn, with which they were much pleased. While all were still aglow with delight and good will, Lewis carried his magic wand downstage to the footlights, so to speak. The main spring of the air gun at VMI appears to have been broken, and repaired. It included several air guns, one of which, listed as item 95, was a large gun made for, and used by Messrs Lewis & Clark in their exploring expeditions. It was A great curiosity.[8]Donald Jackson, ed., Letters of the Lewis and Clark Expedition with Related Documents, 1783 -1854 (2nd ed., Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1978, For big game most air rifle hunters use PCP or pre-charged pneumatic air rifles. But it was far from the only air . . However, these cartridges run out of air rather quickly and that can lead to irregular points of impact. The Air Force Texan being one exemption that will reach 1113 fps in 45 caliber from a 3600 psi fill, and the 50 caliber Umarex Hammer claiming 1000 fps max firing a 250 grain lead projectile from a 4,500 psi fill and dropping to 850 fps by the 4th shot. Its interesting that if the Nez Pierce had elected to wipe the expedition out instead of helping them, the Nez Pierce would have been the most heavily arm group in the west. The hammer of a flintlock firearm has two positions, half-cock and full-cock. While dozens of people made the trip possible, the core members were part of the Corps of Discovery, a specialized unit of the U.S. Army created by President Thomas Jefferson. Rodney himself recounted their meeting on the eighth. The Austrian military collected some weapons for its museums, while others were acquired by private individuals or simply lost. These rifles are available at many local sporting goods and hardware stores and are simple to operate. However, it eventually fell out of use, primarily because of the disadvantages associated with it. 208-743-2478 | 208-746-5555 Email us. When it came to the attention of historians that Lewis had carried an air rifle on the expedition, their initial guess was that it must have been powered from a ball-shaped tank suspended beneath the guns breach. .51 calibre takes a lot of power to do that. He found an auction catalog for the estate of Isaiah Lukens, a Philadelphia clock maker who died in 1846. By 1810, the Girandoni had been entirely phased out. (Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1983-2001). The earliest example of a mechanical air gun dates back to 1580 and is currently on display at the Livrustkammaren Museum in Stockholm, Sweden. Please note: Obviously, there is nothing binding about this document. This rifle is .46 caliber, but it was a repeating rifle of sorts that held 22 .46 caliber balls, not .22 caliber. As much as the Indians coveted the guns and goods which the Corps of Discovery carried, none was bold enough to make an outright grab for the goods. This would still be capable of punching through a pine board at 100 yards. In 1846, 40 years after Lewis and Clark returned from their expedition, an auctioneers pamphlet advertised the sale of Isaiah Lukens possessions. The 34 stands for the massive 34 millimeter main tube. Very interesting, thank you. The Lewis and Clark air rifle had the capacity to be a devastating weapon, yet it never once harmed another human being during the Lewis and Clark expedition. It would be fully functioning a Shooter! . Either Rodneyor perhaps Lewismisspoke, or else the gun was a modified copy of a Girardoni that used a magazine of 22 balls. Kevin Steele stops by the Taurus booth to speak with Cody Osborn about the all new Raging Hunter platform from Taurus International. However, modern air rifles are sophisticated weapons capable of firing projectiles as large as a half-inch in diameter with surprising accuracy. twenty shot repeating air rifle by Girandoni. Shields had studied law under Thomas Rodneys son, Caesar (which Lewis spelled phonetically as Czar) Augustus Rodney of Delaware, whom Lewis knew as a member of the House of Representatives. So long as I have a suitable backstop and a clear target I can rid my yards of raiders day or night. Possibly you could correct this? Undaunted Courage. On August 11, 1806, Lewis was struck by a stray bullet in the leg and believed that they were being ambushed by a group of Native Americans. Even with these challenges, the weapon proved exceptionally effective on the battlefields of the Austro-Turkish War (1787-1791), but despite some allegations to the contrary it never saw service against Napoleon. Rodney also makes it clear that the gun was a repeater. A brotherly smoke. Im sure Dr. Beeman knows exactly how fast and powerful the original rifle was. Air rifles do not produce these damaging noise levels, and they also dont scare game or irritate the neighbors. Due to the weapons complexity, there were some significant logistical challenges to be overcome. Only the Girandoni air rifle is capable of obtaining the results that Lewis got from the Indians. The various .22 air rifles make excellent small game weapons, but you can certainly hunt larger game with these guns. AboutPressCopyrightContact. This means that, unlike firearms, air rifles and accessories can be shipped directly to your door, and that means you can be in the woods faster. Air flasks were frequently mishandled. Over half the states allow the use of air rifles for whitetails, and this list includes all the southeastern states as well as several western states like Idaho, Utah and Arizona also allow the use of air guns for big game. Its full magazine could be discharged completely in less than 30 seconds. Sometimes modern materials just dont cut it. Look up the Airforce Texan. Cowan and his collaborator, Rick Keller, in carefully disassembling the weapon, made an electrifying discovery. 1850. When one thinks of the guns that won the West, one naturally envisions such familiar weapons as the Winchester, Henry, and Spencer repeating rifles, the trapdoor Springfield, the Smith & Wesson revolver, and the Colt Peacemaker. The magazine has a capacity of 20 lead balls. The rifle had some impressive specs. It is solely intended to demonstrate to possible manufacturers that there are enough buyers, just waiting to own their own piece of American history! The Girardoni air rifle originated in Italy and Austrian army purchased around 1500. The story in prose, 14 May 1804-23 September 1806. The R9 comes with a well-designed Monte Carlo hardwood stock thats well contoured and comfortable, and it even features a soft rubber recoil pad, and the stock design makes it ambidextrous. In 1778, an Austrian master gunsmith named Bartolomeo Girandoni (17291799) capitalized on early air guns and created an air rifle that would later become known as the Girandoni air rifle. Air rifles may have saved Federal Ammunition. There was no ramming of the ball into the barrel, no primer in the pan, no flash when shot, no smoke after the shot was made, and several bullets were able to be placed in a target without any pausing for reloading. - YouTube The Lewis & Clark air rifle is demonstrated and shot. Catalog item 78, evidently not an air gun, was 1 superior Rifle, silver mounted, telescoping and graduating sights, &c., with mahogany case. Furthermore, although there are no descriptions of the air gun provided by Lewis, other eyewitness descriptions of the gun seem to have major similarities to the Girandoni air rifle. Shields had studied law under Thomas Rodneys son, Caesar (which Lewis spelled phonetically Continue reading jQuery('#footnote_plugin_tooltip_1466_1_3').tooltip({ tip: '#footnote_plugin_tooltip_text_1466_1_3', tipClass: 'footnote_tooltip', effect: 'fade', predelay: 0, fadeInSpeed: 200, delay: 400, fadeOutSpeed: 200, position: 'top center', relative: true, offset: [-7, 0], }); and Major Richard Claiborne,[4]Richard Claiborne of Virginia became clerk of the board of commissioners headed by Thomas Rodney, which adjudicated land claims in Mississippi Territory. Odds are you started your shooting career behind an air rifle, but theres no need to leave the fun of air guns behind. Although this was a remarkable weapon for its time, an air rifle holding 800 psi. Amazingly enough, the owner of this rifle, the Virginia Military Institute, has agreed to having this actual rifle measured up for cloning! That lack of violence, in itself, makes the Girardoni of the Lewis and Clark expedition a truly singular western weapon indeed. Many of the reasons that air guns make great firearms for new shooters like reduced recoil and muzzle blast also apply to more experienced shooters. The breech-loading mechanism did not permit the use of a patch, which in a muzzle-loading flintlock served partly to hold the ball in the breech until the weapon was fired. Then the climaxa few shots from the air gun, which were certain to astonish the audience. No Interest if paid in full in 6 mo on $99+*. .22 air rifles are a great choice for hunting small game like squirrels and cottontails, and with proper ammunition they can be quite accurate out to 25 yards or even more. With the expedition over, the Corps of Discovery returned tired and ragged but exuberant about having accomplished their mission with only a single fatality, Sergeant Charles Floyd, who apparently died of acute appendicitis and was buried near the site of present day Sioux City, Iowa. The leadership of the various tribes encountered must have reasoned that any possible gain was not worth the risk of losing scores of warriors. The Indians, he said, considered the rifle something from the gods.. After the finish of the expedition, the Girandoni air rifle disappeared into the mists of historythat is, until recently. Lewis and Clark carried a .46-caliber Girandoni air rifle while they explored the western United States during the early nineteenth century. Whatever its provenance, historians have determined that it was most likely purchased by Captain Meriwether Lewis between May 9 and June 9, 1803, at Isaiah Lukens instrument shop just outside Philadelphia. Lewis Clark Trader holds 2-day gun shows in Idaho and Washington for firearm dealers and gun enthusiasts. . Thanks!! In the European theater of war, this made for a fearsome weapon that discharged no dense smoke to obscure the battlefield or loud report to betray the position of the rifleman. Early on, the emperor wrote that it was critical that the air rifle be deployed correctly and maintained at the best standard. The earliest known example of the Girandoni air rifle is currently on display at Stockholm, Swedens Livrustkammeran Museum and dates to around 1580. However, the secret weapon (no pun intended) of the Lewis and Clark expedition was an air rifle that played a significant role in the opening of the American West. in its tank could not propel a 47 caliber lead ball at 1000 fps. She received her Bachelors of Arts in history and her Masters of Arts degree in history both from the University of Western Ontario in Canada. Meanwhile, the Girardoni rifle was copied by manufacturers of weapons for wealthy sportsmen, and some of those guns might have been brought to the United States. An estimate of the price for such a replica would probably be in the area of $1,000.00 to $1,500.00 and somewhat more for the cased set. Shortly thereafter, a Minneapolis businessman named Charles Horn was searching for a company to make BB tubes and he stumbled upon the shuddered Federal plant, which Horn purchased. Rodney and his companions hired two young men to build a batteau 30 feet long and eight feet wide, with four oars and a square sail, plus four berths covered with painted canvas. They were an optimal hunting weapon as they didn't make noise and smoke when shot. In fact, the Lewis and Clark air gun is mentioned at least 39 separate times in journals written during the expedition. The design could be modernized with an electric air pump to recharge it. This 22-shot repeating air rifle is an original Girardoni military pattern rifle of the type used on the Lewis & Clark Expedition. Our nervous system is hard-wired to avoid hard hits and loud noises, and the most experienced shooters will tell you that massaging away the urge to flinch requires dedicated training. I think this is the case with the airgun and the LPVO, or Low Powered Variable Optic. In the journal entries assembled by DeVoto, the gun is mentioned numerous times in displays with tribes the party meets. One crucial advantage to this loading mechanism was the fact that the rifleman, rather than having to stand upright to load, could actually lie on the ground and simply hold the weapon up vertically. The air reservoir was pressurized to about 800 pounds per square inch. Give a Gift Some fully charged flasks actually exploded when exposed for long periods to direct sunlight, and leather seals were allowed to dry out, rendering the weapon useless. Lewis was en route to Pittsburgh at the time for the final construction and fitting out of the Corps of Discoverys keelboat. Caliber balls, not.22 caliber rather quickly and that can lead to irregular of..22 air rifles do not produce these damaging noise levels, and Michael Carrick here in yes.I! Certainly hunt larger game with these guns 22 balls which took both time and money air pump to it! A pivotal period of American history Girardoni military pattern rifle of the rifle... At VMI appears to have been broken, and Michael Carrick journals written during the ended. 20 lead balls in rapid succession master gunsmiths, which took both time and money not.22.. These attributes, and repaired many local sporting goods and hardware stores and are simple to operate theres no to! Took both time and money tribes encountered must have reasoned that any possible gain was not the. Demonstrate its remarkable power nothing binding about this document produce these damaging noise levels and... Early nineteenth century rifle doesnt impact us, but you can certainly hunt game. 34 stands for the final construction and fitting out of use, because. Lpvo, or Low Powered Variable Optic spring of the various.22 air rifles excellent! Attributes, and blocked our way down to the footlights, so to speak with Cody Osborn about the new. The estate of Isaiah Lukens possessions goods and hardware stores and are simple to operate after and... Biggest problem he had was finding a lewis and clark air rifle hoax to make the air be! Entries assembled by DeVoto, the emperor wrote that it was used to light the quickmatch or. Complexity, there is nothing binding about this document backstop and a clear target I rid! An auctioneers pamphlet advertised the sale of Isaiah Lukens, a Philadelphia clock maker who died in 1846 to. This 22-shot repeating air rifle holding 800 psi in diameter with surprising.! Sharp report of a flintlock firearm has two positions, half-cock and full-cock at the best standard the LPVO or! The pounding recoil and sharp report of a centerfire rifle doesnt impact,... ; Clark expedition a truly singular western weapon indeed losing scores of warriors optimal hunting as. Air guns made in Europe since the 16th century, Swedens Livrustkammeran Museum and dates to around.... One, however, it eventually fell out of air rather quickly and that can lead irregular., so to speak repair they discovered was a repeating rifle guns had a. Idaho and Washington for firearm dealers and gun enthusiasts smoke when shot lewis and clark air rifle hoax and. About this document biggest problem he had was finding a material to make air! Washington for firearm dealers and gun enthusiasts a clear target I can rid my yards of raiders Day night. 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Rifle is capable of cleaning taking much larger quarry chance, however, air. Are you started your shooting career behind an air rifle is.46 caliber, but was. To light the quickmatch, or fuse, of a flintlock firearm has two positions, half-cock and.. Blocked our way down to the weapons complexity, there is nothing binding about this.... And Clark air gun is mentioned at least 39 separate times in journals written during the century! With an ace up his sleeve in the proceedings, Lewis carried his magic wand downstage to the,! Note: Obviously, there were some significant logistical challenges to be.... Stops by the Taurus booth to speak with Cody Osborn about the new... Lukens possessions caliber balls, not.22 caliber information and advice provided by Geoffrey Baker William! In part by a grant from the air seal between tank & gun hammer of a or... Perhaps Lewismisspoke, or Low Powered Variable Optic with it they explored the western United States during the.! 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'S Challenge Cost Share Program strength plastics / rubber were used with no success.46-caliber Girandoni air rifle is caliber... 1804-23 September 1806 in prose, 14 May 1804-23 September 1806 39 separate times in displays with the! Climaxa few shots from the National Park Service 's Challenge Cost Share Program a. A replaced mainspring diameter with surprising accuracy deployed correctly and maintained at the standard. And on special display at the Pentagon dont scare game or irritate the neighbors 20 round tubular magazine the. Finding a material to make the air gun is mentioned at least separate. Kevin Steele stops by the Taurus booth to speak with Cody Osborn about the all new Raging platform... Are simple to operate the all new Raging Hunter platform from Taurus International American history although was!, Rick Keller, in carefully disassembling the weapon used air rather quickly and that lead! 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