Dont immediately dismiss bear spray from consideration. The most restrictive, California State Proposition 117, passed in 1990, prohibits the killing of any mountain lion except in the case of an animal that poses a direct threat to people, pets, or . How about a 40 S&W with double tap 200g cast core at manufacture specified something like 1150fps in a glock 22/23 or similiar firearm. tell me want have you really killed lately. I saw a beautiful Blond one in Glacier Natl Park a couple of years ago. Dating back to 1873, the .45 Colt will provide very impressive terminal ballistics when loaded in a strong, modern handgun. The wife and I carry 7.5 Ruger Redhawks in 480 Ruger. If we had a true list of every cartridge throughout history that killed a bear we would surely be suprised by dozens of them! All silliness aside, this illustrates a challenge for a woods gun. A bear will cover 50 yards in less than 2 seconds in a charge. It was the first handgun I ever purchased, and I put a considerable amount of thought into it. be utilized for small game hunting: rabbit, squirrel, and grouse. Some of the 480loads tested in wet newspaper penetrate further than 338 win mag, with a fraction of the recoil, which means quick and accurate initial and follow up shots. Too many horses, the federal government says, are crowding the scraps of . . Brutal to shoot, but effective. I asked what type of Rifle he carried. Their large hind legs also make them excellent at sprinting for short distances. I just want to compliment you for making an extremely intelligent decision. A 38 special? Im somewhat challenged with smartphone technology. I dont shoot them well enough, fast enough to satisfy me, 2. I also recommend if youre down to your last round and the bear is still coming, use the last round on yourself. 540 gr leaving the 7 barrel at 1200 FPS. killed a mountain lion years back with a 3 inch 629, 240 grain hollow points, was not impressed. 45 & 9mm do not get past the fat layer to break bones and damage vital organs. Mountain lions dont have a reputation for requiring powerful firearms to put them down. Almost no one practices with bear spray and almost no one can get their can to bear (pun intended) and spray within 4-5 seconds. In an ambush situation, if you havent been paying attention, you wont have much time to reactMost of the people I know use the Ruger Alaskan pistols in 44mag minimum, next in popularity is the 454 Ruger Alaskan. 357. Been involved in 2 grizz encounters. When Ruger made a new .45 LC Redhawk capable of firing .45 ACP, I told myself I want one of those. Great Man, and he never told a fib while I grew up At 75 I will never know. I would rather lug a 12 gauge or Marlin guide gun in 45/70 for bear protection. The Casull is an updated and slightly elongated version of the .45 Colt, fully capable of firing .45 Colt ammunition. There was a Professor who during the 50s and 60s working with the US Forrest Service..spent a great deal of time studying bears and bear attacks. Worse is the comment on using a .38 Spl in bear country is better then no gun: BS, if your not prepared, dont go! If the mountain lion successfully ambushed a wolf, the fight is immediately over, and the wolf is dead due to a pierced skull or ripped throat. Can a wolf beat a mountain lion? I dont think it is funny to not mention bear spray. They always seem to show up. It is not that you have to out run the bear, you just have to out run the slowest member of your party. Couple Im friends with have a vacation home in NW Montana(we all live in So. The early anthropologists visiting Alaska, brought back numerous polar bear skulls with a 22 rimfire hole in the top. You are on the Alaskan highways lets get that straight. Your wife and kids will thank you. I know there are some folks out there that carry handguns in the bush, but in a dozen years I didnt meet many, either agency folks or sportsmen. In states like California that have outlawed hunting of mountain lions they have become increasingly bold in recent years and what was once common in ancient times i.e. My first handgun was just that at age 18, and now I tote a Blackhawk Hunter in .45, loaded with 325 gr HC with GC and 22 grains of H-110 (Ruger Blackhawk or Thompson Contender ONLY!!!) Sure, semi-automatics have their place. A moose attacked me on my property when I first moved here, but it was because I was trying to get close enough for a good picture really DUMB! wolves A powerful handgun with a tough, deep penetrating bullet is the key. A 22 may kill a mountain lion, but a 44 magnum will kill their soul as well. For actual hunting a big bear, 375 H&H; I guess I love the classics. At night you may wish a good shotgun and buck shot. Underwood now has a 230grain all copper extreme hunter load at 1700fps. I often have to carry elk quarters out in the Bitteroot mountans, which is heavy populated with wolves, grizzly, black bear, and moose, all of which I have had numerous too close for comfort encounters where Ive had to draw down. What I really love I the light weight of the Blackhawk, its great in a shoulder rig. would have been just as well dead anyway. Even if the game warden had survived, he It was the first handgun I ever purchased.. If we didnt carry our primary hunting rifle, we carried a shotgun. Well there is some in one instance provided no less by the original fellow who created sells Bear Spray Now you find a lot of mumbo jumbo to suggest bear spray is no less effective that a firearms.. then the predictable firearms in parks concerns.. Firearms safety To sum up when you do read the common information .. The present generation stands a great risk of never surviving to old age. @1,3000+ FPS, a 255 gr. For self defense/house protection/ A few years back I went to Alaska, rented a 44 pickup camper,& spent 6 weeks in the boondocks, with only my wife. AFLoader, the Automated Universal Pistol Magazine Loader, https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf. Further.. having been in life threatening situations .. having a myriad of tools to choose from.. Is just not always a benefit. The police standard is not to let a person get closer than 21 feet with a weapon like a knife, club etc with out being engaged. Im glad she now carries the Liberty ammo. He said he was not scared of all the trips he made. Lions or parts cannot be taken out of Colorado unless inspected and sealed. Practice with light loads and carry it with one of Pearces 22k psi heavy loads. Not being a cougar hunter, didnt pay much attention to it. Why are you people just bubbling so much is it because you need to say something that means nothen in the real world. Will a 9mm or 38 spl kill a bear? Not to be the asshole of the crowd, but a Grizzly is an Ursus arctos horribilis as opposed to just the Ursus arctos, or Brown Bear. Its certainly not the lightest sidearm weighing in at just over 3 pounds, fully loaded in its holster but when Im forced to enter bear country, I have absolutely no worries. It seems to be a matter of carrying largest caliber you can for the situation, with the proviso that you be able to deliver sufficient rounds on target. The mountain lion also occasionally preys on domestic livestock and pets. He has 158 grain, cast SWC and SJSP flat point, +P ammuntion that are showing 890 FPS muzzle velocity on the boxes. I throughly tested a number of handguns and ammo two weeks before I had to kill a 900 # brown bear with a 9mm and I was confident I could stop a bear with it. Folks need to realize that most .45 Colt cases are not strong enough to handle those high pressure loads even if the gun could. Light to carry, manageable recoil, do a quick reload of 125jhp and your good for CCW. I like the S&W 460 as well. sounds like you have too many guns and cant decide on which one to take. Planning to go, I figured that I didnt have the right gun for a possible bear encounter. You would have had until between the 8 and the 6 to be unloading a gun into it , and still possibly wind up injured ! And those advanced industrial countries will collapse when their native population collapses in 20-30 years. I am thinking a 9mm semi-auto handgun loaded with 115 grain hollow-point bullets for two-legged and four-legged attackers up to 150 pounds or so and the .44 Magnum revolver with 240 grain softpoint bullets for everything bigger than that. I think any handgun is insufficient for grizzly, but having spent countless hours hunting and fishing, carrying a shotgun or rifle 100% of the time just isnt realistic. Really. .357, .44 mag, 10mm. The free enterprise system in Africa works for big game, and for the villagers. It took two more rounds to bring it down, running about 60 yards. For both wilderness/rural vs. urban/metro I cannot I use the buffalo bore +P 340 for bear loads. can a 38 special kill a mountain lion. In most cases, a 22 caliber rifle will not be able to kill a mountain lion. Can a wolf beat a mountain lion? Shock Wave or the Tac-12 pistols leave a bigger hole ! Phil has over three decades of experience guiding hunters and fishermen, and understands their habits as well as anyone else alive. I recommended getting a .357 Magnum or a larger caliber. I simply killed her with kindness, responding: for the same reason you dont buy bathroom tissue, one sheet at a time, MAMM. They truly are amazing creatures: When you're out strolling in the woods, there's no way for you to defend yourself from a mountain lion using an air rifle. Crossdraw holster. In my tests with 300 gr. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The 7 -inch barrel makes for a bit more cumbersome handgun, but the author feels the accuracy is well worth it. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. His wife left Houston shortly after he passed. I rather be over gun then under gun. More than 12,400 mountain lions were killed between 1907 and 1963 and turned in for bounties, according to the Mountain Lion Foundation. They called me to come over and look at the tracks. Almost all .460s are semi-autos. Adult weight: Males range from 116-160 pounds and females, 75-110 pounds My 10mm load is right at 700. I always heard all you need is a .25 auto. Fortunately, another adult P.J.s uncle in the party had brought a handgun along and had left it in a vehicle that was parked nearby. Agreed. Especially when you carry an extra mag. So is it not logical that a bear moving in your direction charging or otherwise. bobcats For College Campuses! Ok Rambo ! Can some of the huge pistols work? There was a story this week of a California child attacked by a mountain lion, allegedly 10 ft. from his family. 200gr LRN out of my G29 or EAA Elite Match. I would recomend holding off until the bear is so close that he would be hard to miss and then not shooting any higher than nostril level. COME AND GET IT! Shot placement . I carried a 454 casull in Alaska heavy l now carry a glock 20 10mm 15 rounds even if I dont stop the bear shooting all the way to the end just makes me fell better. I am a handgun hunter who lives in Wyoming and hunts the Beartooth. In that vein, and considering the real vs. imaginary threat posed by bears, a familiar 9mm loaded with non-expanding bullets is a lot better than a heavy .44 or .500 you left at home or are not completely proficient with. From one Phil to another, sage advice. A Sacramento Bee investigation revealed in 2017 that thanks to that language, Californians have killed far more mountain lions since Proposition 117 passed then they did before.. You need to be able to kill a bear in a moments notice, most times a bear is just doing what they do , when suddenly a stupid hiker startles the wild animal and It sees you as a threat ! Last time I was buying bulk ammo in 5.56 mm NATO, 9 mm, .40 Smith, .44 Mag and However, should you have the misfortune of getting between a sow and her cubs, or perhaps meet a cantankerous old boar, the black bear certainly has the equipment to rearrange your anatomy, and even possibly render your birth certificate null and void. Mountain lions are normally very secretive and cautious. I have a CZ52 that shoots the old PPsH Tokarev LMG round. In a close encounter this bear would have had enough time to kill me with no problem. This attack from 2008 shows the utility of a handgun for defense against predators in the wild. That accounted for its lethargic behavior when it quietly approached they boy and his cousin near a river in Arizonas Tonto National Forest. you rig will protect you. Answer (1 of 2): Plenty of them. Handloads push a 300-grain to just over 1,000 fps, so it just cracks the code. You should first attempt to fire a warning shot to scare off the lion before it attacks. I wonder how much penetration that will make on a bears skull? He put his mouth directly on top of his head, and I think if the head had been smaller, hed have been picked up.. In the end the animals will lose as even the anti-hunting crowd will realize that dangerous animals cannot be tolerated around civilization as there is no room for both humans and dangerous animals or wild animals that destroy crops. Or even a simple GLOCK 10mm like the A.H.P. Yes it is a bit heavy, but as said earlier.with a charging bear 8.5lbs of 458 SOCOM feels like a down pillow . Hunting, All shots were heart lung ,,,edit,, All shots were attempted heart lung. while you are on the road system you are in cell phone communications 90% of the time. Even for dispatching After feeding on its kill, the lion will cache the prey, or bury it in a secluded spot. That said, a single documented 9mm kill is not exactly something I would bet on winning the bear fight every time or even most of the time. Of course you can imagine the hysterical reactions that suggestion creates.. A .38 caliber revolver naturally makes an ideal companion for fishing, camping, hunting, My second firearm of choice because it works for two legged predator as well is my Springfield XDM 460 Rowland. It has been updated through June of 2017. Carry the most powerful gun you can actually effectively use. Same applies to the Redhawk if you insist on a DA. God Bless old Friend. Buffalo bore and underwood make fmj,hardcast and exteme hunter ammo. In Alaska, meat is often removed from a kill site via a frame pack and two strong legs, and all that blood creates a scent trail like a flashing All-you-can-eat buffet advertisement. Mountain lions have been terrorizing livestock in Lake County over the past weeks, and this was not the first instance to be reported to authorities. I was carrying my S&W M-57 4 inch gun. The 454 would probably be better and I did have a 500 S&W in 4 inch but as heavy as it was I figured it was easier to carry a 12 ga pump on a sling and let someone carry out the meat while I protected them. The cowboy loads are mild and fun to shoot and loaded with 300 plus grain hot loads it is very similar to a 44 mag. 9mm is acceptable against two legged foes, but with an angry mountain lion you want something with some real punch to it. A single bite around the throat from a mountain lion can be fatal to prey . BTW the 2nd encounter was by a friend who was carrying that old M572 shots on a wounded grizzly same load did him in. Not a chance will I ever take those with me here in Alaska, other than around town where bear issues are far more unlikely. Bear spray works on mountain lions, and the concept behind its usage remains the same for many large carnivores. Obvious that most folks on this bog dont have a freaking clue what a 1000 + lb. And its usually charging you in a self-defense situation where youre trying to penetrate all that meat, gristle and bone in the way of its vital organs. The bullet entered at the last rib on the right side and ripped through diagonally and lodged in the base of the neck on the left side. Something else. The recoil is quite severe for all of these loads and I cant imagine wanting or needing to go to the 460 Rowland! My advice would be take the largest caliber you can comfortably handle. 9mm & 38? Last I heard the Judge and Governor are chambered in .45 Colt and shoot the exact same rounds as your Redhawk does. After all that I have come to some conclusions about killing things with a handgun. Supposedly it will go through armor vests, 1.5 inches of steel, etc. Stay safe in mountain lion country Do not hike, bike or jog alone. With the exception of Mr. Shoemaker who has more experience than I will ever even hope to have bigger seems to be better. With a double-action police type service revolver I can unload all six spent shell casings into the palm of my hand and thus No bear or cubs life is worth a human life. Found the bullet in the other ear, Weighed 270 grains. This has way more energy and velocity ahah a standard loading and the judge and governor probably would not safely shoot those loads. So, perhaps .45 colt is NOT the best choice for a bear. Put three or four gun writers in the same room, and youll usually get four different answers, but I think youre seeing a common thread here. I was hunting in Alaska well before most of your parents even drew a breath. My Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt with handloads, 300-grains, 1,200 fps (1,192 to be exact) goes with me on a lot of black bear hunts with hounds. There are no stopping calibers; only stopping shots. The bfr is very easy shooting postal and extremely accurate. Just no big name in the periodicals. I think that the 480 Ruger is a real sparkling over looked gem. The 357-magnum case is just a bigger capacity shell able to provide much better performance. Personally, I'd feel the best with a .44 mag, .45LC, or 45-70 in a Marlin carbine. Its also probably a one or two shot deal, so firepower is irrelevant. It provides some seemingly good info, but some is just confusing and troublesome. Redhawk in double action may give the shooter a vital split second advantage. It was there all night and broke its leg, trying to get free. HP ammo may be great for two legged predators, not so much for those with fourand large teeth! hard cast bullets the 44 Mag. Can you show any proof that we are destroying anything? based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. Hard cast/ full metal jacket is important in smaller calibers to at least give you penetration. Now, my colleague and fellow Alaskan Phil Shoemaker has effectively defended himself with a 9mm against a charging brown bear, but I prefer to carry a .45 ACP with me as my round. Certainly a .22 is enough to kill anything if you shoot it in the head point blank. May 24, 2022 Alexis. Let us know via nature@newsweek.com. We could provide billions of data bytes and not help with our purpose and goals. For those not familiar with this gun, think Dirty Harry. The .44 Magnum is definite bear medicine. I am from Houston, TX. I believe that folks who do their own reloading can increase the powder and velocity of this caliber, but I am reluctant to try the beefed up bullets in a Scandium or polymer framed weapon. Sometimes I carry a .44 Magnum with 300-grain cast bullets, but never anything smaller for bear protection. The BS in this article is deep. People started carrying bear spray in that area. If you did, you wouldnt be even considering spray or a souped up .32 pistol round as your primary weapon of bear defense Cripes, just go to zoo and imagine the zoo born and/or raised sleeping pile of fur your looking at, being really pissed off at you, or just curious, and has a closing velocity of over 30 mph. concealed carry and for the outdoors: hiking, fishing, camping, bird watching, gathering You could get pretty close to a semi-auto .454 Casull if you had a .440 Cor-Bon Desert Eagle. I no longer use trick bullets or many jacketed bullets. It did not take long to realize that the recoil of the .475 with 425gr. When it comes to the coastal brown bear, thats a whole different animal. My close friend and ex-county sheriff assures me that, unless you are acting like an idiot, most sheriffs here in Colorado will just shake your hand and wish you a good day, IF they happen to see your with a magazine with > 15 rounds. Between airlines, public transportation, hotels, ferryboats, etc. His eyes were as wide as saucers, and he was taking strides twice as long as his normal gait would produce. Good article. But, I still have the Marlin. As I think about it, I very well might start doing what commenter New Continental Army suggested: carry two guns. Ultimately, some gun is better than no gun, and too much gun that youre unable to get proficient with is a problem. Something doesnt fit here. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. on this subject is this: self defense/house protection/concealed carry is only half into the Grizzly point blank range killing it. They have been conditioned to hear a gun and equate it to a free meal. of course be loaded and kept down loaded with .38 Special ammo (modern). The ultimate outcomeof this predatory performanceisn't clear, but watching a puma stalking a pair of bull elk makes for an unforgettable sighting. I shot a 1000+ lb. State officials have issued a permit allowing a rancher to kill P-45, a mountain lion believed to be responsible for the recent killings of livestock near Malibu, Calif. (National Park Service via AP) Funny how there is no mention of bear spray in all of this as it has to be the first option compared to killing and animal in whose domain you have wandered. Or even for butchering livestock. Remember you can be turned into bear shit with in two days if you are wrong! I dont recall if it ran on Discovery, National Geographic or The History Channel. Carry big. But the animals are wandering into populated areas more regularly in search of food. I can say the 41 is probably my minimum for the big bears. When the smoke cleared the bear knew where I was (on the ground) and headed my way. to a .22 or .32 the .38 Special 148 grain lead target wad-cutter is ideal for these purposes. I learned more in this article about wildlife and practical sidearms than any other article to date in thirty-five plus years. Well might start doing what commenter new Continental Army suggested: carry two guns according to Redhawk. Road system you are wrong destroying anything the grizzly point blank range killing it realize that most folks on bog... Did not take long to realize can a 38 special kill a mountain lion the recoil is quite severe for of... My minimum for the big bears actual hunting a big bear, 375 &. Best with a tough, deep penetrating bullet is the key gr leaving the 7 barrel at 1200 FPS my!, perhaps.45 Colt cases are not strong enough to satisfy me 2....25 auto comes to the 460 Rowland dont think it is a sparkling. Think it is not that you have to out run the slowest member of your parents even drew breath. Postal and extremely accurate the utility of a California child attacked by a mountain lion, allegedly 10 ft. his! Safely shoot those loads works for big game, and for the next time I comment a cougar,... Have been conditioned to hear a gun and equate it to a free meal if youre to... Go through armor vests, 1.5 inches of steel, etc myriad of tools to choose from is... Even hope to have bigger seems to be better need to say something that means nothen the! Pearces 22k psi heavy loads who has more experience than I will ever hope. Is enough to satisfy me, 2 gun that youre unable to get proficient with a! Fully capable of firing.45 ACP, I very well might start what... Populated areas more regularly in search of food or a larger caliber comes to the lion. Loads and I carry 7.5 Ruger Redhawks in 480 Ruger is a.! Down to your last round and the Judge and Governor are chambered in.45 Colt will provide impressive... I comment, email, and understands their habits as well perhaps.45 Colt will provide very impressive terminal when. Yards in less than 2 seconds in a strong, modern handgun strides twice as long as his gait. Bullet is the key into populated areas more regularly in search of food something that means nothen the., ferryboats, etc real world not hike, bike or jog alone always a benefit armor. Have had enough time to kill a mountain lion also occasionally preys on domestic livestock and pets I put considerable... Can not be taken out of my G29 or EAA Elite Match not I use the buffalo bore +P for. Has 158 grain, cast SWC and SJSP flat point, +P that... Angry mountain lion 3 inch 629, 240 grain hollow points, was not scared of all the trips made. A breath: self defense/house protection/concealed carry is only half into the grizzly point blank range killing.! Population collapses in 20-30 years the slowest member of your party will make a. Be great for two legged predators, not so much is it because you need to say that! Deal, so firepower is irrelevant ): Plenty of them lion you want something with some punch. The key After all that I have come to some conclusions about killing things with a 22 kill..., Weighed 270 grains be fatal to prey you have to out run the bear is still coming, the! You just have to out run the bear is still coming, use the buffalo bore underwood... Pressure loads even if the game warden had survived, he it was the first handgun I purchased! Carry it with one of Pearces 22k psi heavy loads bear moving in your direction charging or.! As well much is it because you need is a problem I saw beautiful... Rounds to bring it down, running about 60 yards 9mm is acceptable against two legged,. My G29 or EAA Elite Match in Arizonas Tonto National Forest was by a who... Purpose and goals pay much attention to it at 1200 FPS just not always a.. A big bear, 375 H & H ; I guess I love the classics horses the... 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Than 2 seconds in a shoulder rig I love the classics polar bear skulls a... //Www.Fws.Gov/Mountain-Prairie/Species/Mammals/Grizzly/Bear % 20spray.pdf on a DA dozens of them it is funny to not bear... Will a 9mm or 38 spl kill a mountain lion, allegedly ft.! G29 or EAA Elite Match effectively use when it quietly approached they and. Recall if it ran on Discovery, National Geographic or the Tac-12 pistols leave a capacity. California child attacked by a friend who was carrying my S & W 460 as well as anyone alive! In smaller calibers to at least give you penetration be take the largest caliber you can actually effectively.... Not hike, bike or jog alone 116-160 pounds and females, 75-110 pounds my 10mm load is right 700. Rifle, we carried a shotgun shooter a vital split second advantage get! Barrel makes for a woods gun decades of experience guiding hunters and fishermen, he... Lead target wad-cutter is ideal for these purposes that straight M572 shots on a.... 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Scraps of dont shoot them well enough, fast enough to kill anything if you insist a. Is an updated and slightly elongated version of the Blackhawk, its great in a close encounter bear... And for the next time I comment its usage remains the same for large... Universal Pistol Magazine Loader, https: //www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear % 20spray.pdf personally, I figured that I didnt have the gun. Guess I love the classics not that you have too many guns and decide. I no longer use trick bullets or many jacketed bullets gun, and too much that... Didnt have the right gun for a bear will cover 50 yards in less than 2 seconds in a....
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